Posts by Doug Mason

18

Why are the GB and JWs scared of "apostates" and "research"? Romans 8: 35-39

by stuckinarut2 in

i was just pondering this passage of scripture:.

romans 8:35-39 (new world translation).

35 who will separate us from the love of the christ?+ will tribulation or distress or persecution or hunger or nakedness or danger or sword?+ 36 just as it is written: “for your sake we are being put to death all day long; we have been accounted as sheep for slaughtering.”+ 37 on the contrary, in all these things we are coming off completely victorious+ through the one who loved us.

Doug Mason

There is nothing new. It is ever the same with every autocratic body. Set up a fence (“Trinity”, “Blood”, “Jehovah”, etc.), threatening death if you stray outside. The monotheists of the 6th century BCE were no different:

“By introducing a series of statues, the founding fathers of Judaism try to safeguard the new community’s loyalty. They leave no doubt about their intolerance. Prophecy calling for following other gods is punishable by death (Deut 13.2-6). If such an invitation is pronounced by one’s brother, son, daughter, wife or friend, then “you shall have no pity on him, you shall not spare him nor shield him” (Deut 13.9).

“In this way, a system of control is established which even interferes with, and works within, the family. The religious community is considered to be more important than kinship solidarity - a revolution in a kinship-based society, but characteristic of new religious movements such as early Christianity, Islam and some well-known contemporary cults. (Monotheism and the prophetic minority, pages 43-44, Bernhard Lang)

110

References to YHWH in ancient documents

by Doug Mason in

page 15 of awake!

2017 provides an image that shows hebrew writing with the statement: “the personal name of god written in ancient hebrew characters appears abundantly in early manuscripts of the bible”.. alongside that image, the awake!

provides a listing to show “the rendering of ‘god’s name’ in various languages”.. the facts do not support either assertion that the watchtower society makes:.

Doug Mason

crazyguy,

I believe that fundamentally, those people produced their documents to support their ideology.

Much of the OT as we have it is the product of the elites and their descendants who were exiled by Nebuchadnezzar.

They took their opportunity to represent their minority monotheist ideology by rewriting stories accordingly.

Doug

110

References to YHWH in ancient documents

by Doug Mason in

page 15 of awake!

2017 provides an image that shows hebrew writing with the statement: “the personal name of god written in ancient hebrew characters appears abundantly in early manuscripts of the bible”.. alongside that image, the awake!

provides a listing to show “the rendering of ‘god’s name’ in various languages”.. the facts do not support either assertion that the watchtower society makes:.

Doug Mason

slim,

I have correspondence from George Howard complaining about the way the WTS has misrepresented his views. And he only wrote about Shem Tob's Matthew.

My comment regarding the Nomina Sacra comes from my understanding of Colin Robert's book, "Manuscript, Society and Belief in Early Christian Egypt". If you could please show me where I am misreading his chapter on the Nomina Sacra (pages 26-48), I am quite prepared to change my views. On a quick glance through that chapter (after about 40 years), I failed to pick up his saying there is a link between Hebrew practice and the Nomina Sacra.

Does anyone need me to temporarily provide a scan of that chapter? Maybe I can be shown to have misunderstood him.

Doug

110

References to YHWH in ancient documents

by Doug Mason in

page 15 of awake!

2017 provides an image that shows hebrew writing with the statement: “the personal name of god written in ancient hebrew characters appears abundantly in early manuscripts of the bible”.. alongside that image, the awake!

provides a listing to show “the rendering of ‘god’s name’ in various languages”.. the facts do not support either assertion that the watchtower society makes:.

Doug Mason

crazyguy,

I see several reasons for the OT writings.

Firstly, the general populace were not only illiterate, but they would have had no contact with the Temple or with the scribes. So I see one set of Scribes writing their accounts as propaganda against the others, notably the Elohist against the Yahwist (and vice versa), that is the Aaronides against the non-Aaronides, that is the Northerners against the Southerners (read and enjoy "Who Wrote the Bible?", by Richard Elliott Friedman).

These writings are religious histories, not literal histories as we would know them. Their ideologies determined the narrative. That applies also to the NT Gospels. They were written in order to influence and to manage their own immediate communities. The Deuteronomic History is a prime example. Another example are the symbolisms employed in the Creation Myths, especially the story that begins at Gen 2:4B.

Each of these writings was addressed to its own immediate community, not to any future generation. They most certainly were not contemplating that they were writing to people living thousands of years later.

I also see these writings as a means to give these two very minor nations (Judah being the minor party) a sense of self-importance, of endeavouring to provide themselves with an identity while existing in the shadow of really powerful nations.

Doug

110

References to YHWH in ancient documents

by Doug Mason in

page 15 of awake!

2017 provides an image that shows hebrew writing with the statement: “the personal name of god written in ancient hebrew characters appears abundantly in early manuscripts of the bible”.. alongside that image, the awake!

provides a listing to show “the rendering of ‘god’s name’ in various languages”.. the facts do not support either assertion that the watchtower society makes:.

Doug Mason

jhine,

More than 30 years ago, when we relied on snail mail, I wrote:

http://www.jwstudies.com/Witnessing_the_Name.pdf

If any original NT writing had contained the tetragram, this would have been limited to direct quotes, not even to allusions. No original exists.

In the WT's case, they sprinkle their "Jehovah" around wherever it is needed to meet their prejudices. In assessing the WTS's "J" sources, I located their "J20", which is a listing of OT sources. This showed the places where the original -- not the NT -- contained the tetragram.

Interestingly, there are places in the NT where, if they followed their process consistently, they would have used their word "Jehovah" at inconvenient locations:

http://www.jwstudies.com/Translating_with_prejudice.pdf

Let me be over-generous to the WTS for just a moment. The "Matthew" Gospel was written in 85 CE by expat Jews for a Jewish readership. The tetragram might have been familiar to them.

However, when we come to Paul's writings, his readers had no familiarity with the term. However, the word "Lord" (Kyrios) did have great significance, inasmuch as this was one term that was applied to the Roman Emperor. Paul used other titles that were applied to the Emperor, such as "Son of God". One can try to imagine the power of saying that Jesus was the Anointed One" (Christ) in opposition to the supposed anointing of the Emperor.

But Paul's gentile hearers had no reference to the word "YHWH".

Further, we have the evidence provided by the Nomina Sacra, which practice owed nothing to the Jews' tetragram.

On top of all that, the WTS does not ever use the tetragram, whether as ancient or square Hebrew letters, within the body of their articles in English.

Doug

110

References to YHWH in ancient documents

by Doug Mason in

page 15 of awake!

2017 provides an image that shows hebrew writing with the statement: “the personal name of god written in ancient hebrew characters appears abundantly in early manuscripts of the bible”.. alongside that image, the awake!

provides a listing to show “the rendering of ‘god’s name’ in various languages”.. the facts do not support either assertion that the watchtower society makes:.

Doug Mason

Crazyguy,

Broadly speaking, I have no dramas with your general direction. Of course, each of us will disagree on details, but then we are not clones of one another.

By disagreeing, we sharpen our own thinking, learn from others, and constantly grow. To demand that others must agree with us would make us candidates for membership of the Governing Body.

None of the Scriptures represents what we would term "history". They are not literal accounts, including the Gospels. The are religious accounts that are driven by ideology.

In my view, the OT and the NT are vehicles that use superstition and the supernatural to manage and control. It is only by reading and researching the full contexts that we can understand and be able to withstand the pressures employed to control us. To me, one context is that the NT is as much a Jewish product as is the OT, which helps us better appreciate it.

I do not know the extent of the Egyptian control. Moses' Yahwist religion came from down south, from the Kenites while at the latter stages of both Israel's and Judah's history, they were dominated by Assyria. Judah was the minor party in the relationship with Israel, despite the propaganda from Judah.

Doug

4

The worlds largest solar power plant

by pepperheart in

hi just been watching on youtube a national geographic programe about the worlds largest solar power plant .its in india and its really worth a look.

Doug Mason

The race for economic growth and development is between India and China. The suggestion is that by the end of the century, India will be the winner. I won't be around to check.

Doug

110

References to YHWH in ancient documents

by Doug Mason in

page 15 of awake!

2017 provides an image that shows hebrew writing with the statement: “the personal name of god written in ancient hebrew characters appears abundantly in early manuscripts of the bible”.. alongside that image, the awake!

provides a listing to show “the rendering of ‘god’s name’ in various languages”.. the facts do not support either assertion that the watchtower society makes:.

Doug Mason

Ruby,

Of the books on my wish-list, the book I would have liked most to see:

“Only One God? Monotheism in Ancient Israel and the Veneration of the Goddess Asherah”, Dijkstra, Vriezen, Becking.

Costing more than $100 Australian plus postage, it is beyond reach. I see sites offering "free download" but I am wary that these might be scams and that I could be downloading something sinister (apologies to the left-handed).

I see a site kisslibrary but I am dead scared to try them. They are cheap BUT they do not accept payPAl and they are located in Belarus. I am a very cautious and skeptical individual.

Doug

110

References to YHWH in ancient documents

by Doug Mason in

page 15 of awake!

2017 provides an image that shows hebrew writing with the statement: “the personal name of god written in ancient hebrew characters appears abundantly in early manuscripts of the bible”.. alongside that image, the awake!

provides a listing to show “the rendering of ‘god’s name’ in various languages”.. the facts do not support either assertion that the watchtower society makes:.

Doug Mason

ruby,

I am impressed at your qualifications. Let me tell you mine:

I am a graduate of the University of Life from the faculty of Hard Knocks.

My expertise is in the metallurgy associated with hand soldering, although I also taught and trained in the areas of electronics and telecommunications.

I have no axe to grind, no religion to promote. My only hope is to make people open their eyes to the human creation of the supernatural. I suppose my only advantage is that I inherited Jewish genes, but which never saw the light of being manifested religiously at any stage. I am told that my maternal grandfather (gassed by the Nazis) was an avowed atheist.

Doug

110

References to YHWH in ancient documents

by Doug Mason in

page 15 of awake!

2017 provides an image that shows hebrew writing with the statement: “the personal name of god written in ancient hebrew characters appears abundantly in early manuscripts of the bible”.. alongside that image, the awake!

provides a listing to show “the rendering of ‘god’s name’ in various languages”.. the facts do not support either assertion that the watchtower society makes:.

Doug Mason

crazyguy,

My understanding is that the northern nation of Israel were early adopters of EL and his pantheon of gods. After all, they are called IsraEL, not Israyhwh.

Moses obtained his knowledge of YHWH from the Kenites, who I understand lived in Midian. His father-in-law was a priest and Moses' wife had to teach Moses that YHWH required male circumcision. Moses brought YHWH up with him, where the people were worshiping EL (shaddai).

The Kenites remained alongside the Israelites and they continued to support one another.

I have a suspicion that Judah and Israel were different people speaking different languages, but I am open to correction on that (and on anything). The two nations were united only under three kings.

The northern scribes produced documents promoting their perspectives (E) while the scribes in the south, at Jerusalem, produced not only their version (J) but also their demand that worship become centralised in Jerusalem.

During the Neo-Babylonian era, scribes created their self-serving history (D) now known as the Deuteronomic History (DH) -- Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Samuel, and Kings.

About 200 to 300 years later, someone who was not satisfied with the political slant of Kings, wrote Chronicles.

The truism states that secular politics is sometimes dirty but religious politics is always dirty.

Apologies for the digressions.

Doug